VERSES MISSIONARIES IGNORE

 

  In the Hebrew Bible

In the Xtian Bible

 

IN THE HEBREW BIBLE

Missionaries say that over 300 verses in the Tanach support their beliefs.  Between the claim and the proof are some obstacles, but th sat's another story, one discussed elsewhere.   However, several verses in the Tanach refute the missionary claims.  When confronted with these verses, some missionaries rationalize, and others change the subject.  That they never cite these verses while prosetylizing is worth noting.

The verses which missionaries avoid include:

 

  1. God is not a human  person
  2. Blood is not needed to forgive sin
  3. Torah is permanent and Mitzvot can be observed
  4. Deuteronomy 4
  5. The Messiah -- or an anointed?
 
1.  God is not a man.

 Missionaries say that the 'son' aspect of their tri-partite god was the person Jesus.  (Sometimes they even seem to say the other two aspects were also human, but that's another story.)  They emphasize that they believe God became man, not that a man became God.  The Tanach makes no such distinction.  The Tanach says simply that God is not a man.

The same idea is expressed in a different way in Deuteronomy Chapter 4.  The text is explicit -- you saw no image at Horeb, so don't try to make a representation of God.

Here is the list of the verses for easy copy and paste in chatrooms:

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2. Blood sacrifice is not needed for forgiveness.  

Missionaries say that God must have blood in order to forgive sins.  I have even heard them say that God is incapable, does not have the ability, to forgive without bloodshed.  The Tanach does not agree.  According to Tanach, there are several acceptable means for repentance.

Micah Chapter 6 is particularly explicit as to what God wants:

Hosea Chapter 14 waxes poetic and describes words (of repentance) as if they were the animal sacrifices ("calves of our lips"):

The Psalmist expresses the same idea.

In 1 Kings 8, Solomon prays that God will forgive the sins of all those who ask in the temple, for example, verses 33 and 34 (JPS 1917)

1 Kings 8: 46 - 50 applys this even to people to pray to God and think of the temple in a foreign country where they can't make any sacrifices:

One might say that Solomon's prayer wasn't answered, but the text gives no indication of that.

Money (Exodus 30:15-16), jewelry (Numbers 31:50) or putting fire from the altar in a censure (Numbers 17:11) are also listed as means to forgiveness.

Hosea is specific that animal sacrifices will stop for a temporary period (as opposed to being stopped forever and replaced by something else.)

Here is the list of the verses for easy copy and paste in chatrooms:

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3. The commandments can be followed.

 

Missionaries, following Paul's lead, say that the Torah and its commandments are impossible to follow and are are intended only to show us how bad we are.  However, rheir examples show only that they do not understand what the commandments actually are.

The Torah was intended to be permanent, not a temporary measure to be set aside at a later time.  Missionaries claim that Jesus "fulfilled" the Torah so that it is no longer needed.  Torah says otherwise, and uses the phrase "eternal statute" ("hukat olam") 16 different times.  Of particular interest is the use of this phrase in relation to atonement.

Consider also: Ezek 37:24  And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

Here is the list of the verses for easy copy and paste in chatrooms: Deut 6:25; Deut 30:11-14; Ps 19:7-8: Lev 16: 29 -34; Ezek 37:24

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4. Deuteronomy 4.  

 

I have never seen Christians offer this chapter as an excuse for their beliefs, and with good reason.

(KJV) 15 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: 16Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, 17The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flietbackh in the air, 18The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: 19And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. 20But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.

These verses pose two major problems for Christian beliefs.  As you can see from verse 3, with the reminder of how  those Jews who followed a false god died, this chapter is about the worship required of Jews.  The first problem for Christians comes in verses 15 and 16, with the prohibition against worship of anything in the likeness of a person.  It's quite specific - you didn't see anything at Horeb, so don't worship anything that you can see.  Jesus, obviously, had the likeness of a person?.

The second problem, in verse 19, is more subtle.  It's a warning to be careful "when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them."  The next part of the verse contains a remarkable phrase - "which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven."  Some might say this refers only to God putting lights in the sky for everyone, but there are two problems with this idea.  First, the verb 'halek' has the implication of divide or apportion separately to different people and is different from the verb to give or the verb to place.  Secondly, the idea of a neutral astronomical comment being thrown into the middle of firm cautions about worship sounds strange.

It's more likely that God gave the heavenly bodies for other peoples to worship as dieties.  Rashi also offers this as an explanation.  The warnings to Jews not to worship strange gods are numerous, and there are frequent references to what will happen at the end of days, but, to the best of my knowledge, nowhere does Tanach forbid other peoples of that era from worshipping strange gods, and numerous references are made without condemnation of other people doing so.

So, while many Christians are convinced that God will punish with infinite torture anyone who doesn't have the right beliefs, the Bibilcal author gives no hint of this idea.

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5.The Bible refers less often to "The Messiah," than it does to "an anointed."

The Hebrew word 'Moshiac'  (???) is frequently translated as 'Messiah', but that is not its only meaning.  The root meaning is 'anointed.'  In the Hebrew scripture, the word is used frequently, but rarely (if every) refers to THE Messiah.  Most of the time, it refers to a king or priest, since anointing with oil was a part of being installed in office.Three people are mentioned by name as 'the Lord's annointed' or 'the Lord's messiah.'  None of the Christians I've asked in chatrooms have been able to identify them - Cyrus, Saul, and David.

 
 

It's mainly in post biblical times that referring to 'an anointed' is assumed to refer to THE Messiah. This confuses many Christians who, for example, will say things like, "The Rabbis believed in two messiahs, Messiah Ben Joseph and Messiah Ben David."  The phrase 'moshiac ben yosef' should be translated 'an anointed son of Joseph.' More familiarity with the scriptures would show these Christians that THE Messiah can only be a son of David through Solomon (2 Sam 7:12-16).

 

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'NT' Verses Jews Should Know

 

I am sure...

 ...that well minded Christians can find rationalizations to make these passages (all copied and pasted from Bible Gateway so you know they are not misquotes) sound more reasonable.  And anti-semites will have no difficulty using these verses to push hatred of Jews.  I don't try to say what these passages 'really' mean.  My point is more simple -- any Jew who is attracted to Christianity should look at these passages, and know that these are part of the Christian Bible.

For anyone who gives me a list of Hebrew scriptural verses and says that prospective converts to Judaism should be aware of those, I agree, but be sure you have your quotes correct.  There are a lot of misquotes of what the Hebrew says.

Christians are welcome to send me their favorite rationalization of why a given passage is not as bad as it sounds. 


Mt. 10: (KJV) 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.  35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.  36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. (Attributed to Jesus)

Mt. 27: (KJV)25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. (Attributed to 'the Jews')

Luke 12 (KJV) 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:  52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.  53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (Attributed to Jesus)

Luke 14: (KJV) 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.  (Attributed to Jesus)

Luke 19 (KJV) 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.  (Attributed to Jesus)

John 8 (KJV)  31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; ...40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth ...44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (Attributed to Jesus)  (Check the omitted verses.  Note that the charge "Ye are of your father the devil" is leveled at "those Jews which believed on him")

1 Thessalonians, 2:14 (KJV) For ye, brethren, ... also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: 15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:  (Attributed to Paul)

Galatians 5:11 (NIV) Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12As for those agitators (for circumcision, possibly of converts), I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves! (Attributed to Paul.  Most translations are a lot less clear, using phrases such as 'mutilate' or 'cut themselves off'.  One translation says 'cuts off what makes them men.'  KJV translates verse 12 as " I would they were even cut off which trouble you."  Such vagueness suggests they're embarrassed by their own bible.)

John 7:7-10  7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.  8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come. 9 When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.  10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.  (Though Jesus is often descdribed as sinless, in this verse he is lying. One can find excuses ofr it, but a lie is still a lie.)


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